Thoughtful Thursday: Family Tree

February 19, 2009

Thoughtful ThursdayNote to ICLW visitors: Welcome! Although this feature is called Thoughtful Thursday, comments are invited every day of the week. Thanks for visiting!

Sometimes, infertility gets me thinking. Obviously, I think excessively already, but sometimes IF raises an issue to which I’d given little thought before.

One of those is my family tree. Specifically, the timing of births, and whether those might be clues to a genetic predisposition to infertility.

Let’s start with me. I am an only child (clue #1), born about five years into my parents’ marriage (clue #2). I didn’t want to be an only child, and when I was about 3 years old I used to beg for a sibling. Usually my parents gave me everything I asked for, but in this case they didn’t oblige. Quite a lonely little girl, I persisted. They ended up telling me that they wanted to have another child but that it wasn’t possible. That was the extent of the age-appropriate explanation. I also got messages about being the only child that they needed. I have no idea which one was more true.

Around age 4 or 5, I distinctly remember someone asking me why I didn’t have any siblings. I replied, “My parents can’t have any more kids.” And they left it alone. See? Almost 30 years ago, I was already talking about infertility, and I was also already shutting down people’s intrusive lines of questioning. In your face, person whose face I don’t remember despite recalling the conversation almost verbatim!

I never got a straight story about my parents’ reproductive difficulties — as in never. In my 20s I asked my mother why they couldn’t have any more children, and she said it had something to do with my father and shut me down. I actually doubt what she says, because I doubt the sophistication of IF diagnosis in the 70s (if a diagnosis was even attempted) and because my mother is a dubious source. She is always keen to blame others, she has a terrible memory, and she usually either flat-out refuses to answer questions or makes up transparently false answers. I’ve never asked my father the same question — too weird. “So, I hear there was a problem with your sperm?” Uh, no.

Moving on. My mother comes from a huge family. The number of children is just shy of double digits. Actually, it is double digits if you include the adopted sibling along with the many biological siblings. The biological children are spread over more than 20 years, but there are almost ten of them, so the spacing checks out. It’s hard to imagine any infertility on that side. No clues there.

My father comes from a big family. Not big as in can’t-remember-everyone’s-name big like my mom’s family, but big enough. Four kids. Spread over almost 20 years (clue #3). With as much as 7 years separating siblings (clue #4). Infertility? Losses? Both? Very suspicious.

It all makes me wonder. Although I have often felt alone throughout these 7 years of infertility, it seems that I may have some ancestral company. My mother’s mind is genuinely a mystery to me, so I find it hard to imagine how she felt waiting for my conception (assuming that it didn’t happen immediately, which seems pretty likely) or how she felt waiting for more children after me. Was she obsessed? Patient? Not paying much attention? My mother doesn’t filter much that she says, but she’s never said a word about her emotions regarding infertility. I guess if you’re going to stay silent about only one thing, infertility is a good choice.

It’s a little easier for me to imagine my grandmother’s experience. Her first child was conceived within the first year of her marriage, so it would seem that secondary infertility (or loss) was the problem. In that era, what must it have been like to watch her siblings keep popping ’em out while she kept waiting and waiting for #2? How did she feel when her teenage daughter got knocked up — disappointed, worried, relieved? How does she feel about having 3 children with multiple offspring and one with an only child (me) — sad, philosophical, guilty? Does she ever wonder about me, her granddaughter who has been married for over a decade yet doesn’t have children? Is she grateful that I’m educated and successful (unlike some of my knocked-up cousins) or fearful that she passed infertility on to me? Examination of the family tree can go in both directions — I wonder if she wonders like I do.

Today’s question:
Has your own experience with infertility and/or loss made you reconsider your family tree?

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40 Responses to “Thoughtful Thursday: Family Tree”

  1. Sue Says:

    I hope you don’t mind but I think I’ll answer this question in my own blog post perhaps tomorrow.

    I, like you, have a rather interesting tale to tell, although my mother was fiercely fertile.

    But like I say, that is a whole post in itself!!

    Thanks for sharing
    S X

  2. luna Says:

    it’s a shame that you never got those stories from your mom and grandmom, but some things are better left unsaid, I guess.

    my loss brought out some stories from my mom that I had only known in a very surface way. she talked in detail about what recurrent loss and infertility was like in the early 60s, while everyone else was spitting out 3-4 kids stat. her doctors told her to “just relax,” and worse.

    I do have older brothers by 4 and 6 years, but she tried before and after and in between. if any of the others had made it, I never would have, so there you go.

  3. 'Murgdan' Says:

    I, sadly, come from a long line of fertiles…but of course, our issue is male factor, so I’m also likely pretty darn ‘fertile’. Hubby’s side too…no apparent issues. We may be the first ‘stump’ in the family tree. Darn it!

  4. Rebecca Says:

    My family is just infertile. My mum’s mum married at 27 but didn’t have my mother until she was 33 and I’ve always wondered why. Then she was 43 when she fell pregnant with my aunt. She thought she was going through the menopause, apparently. That’s a big gap.

    My dad’s mum got married at 25ish but didn’t have my dad until she was 28, which I think was quite unusual at the time. I think she must have struggled for years (and probably had miscarriages) and eventually had a stillborn baby girl when my dad was 8. She never got over that. My uncle was born a couple of years later. There was a big gap between my dad and his brother too.

    As for me, well I was conceived when my parents had been married about a year… but I’m the only one. My mother had breast cancer shortly after I was born and “was advised to not have more”… but I don’t know how true that is.

    My husband is from uber-fertiles. He’s one of five and both his parents have three siblings each. Makes me sick!

  5. MrsJoyner Says:

    My mom and grandma talked about infertility when my mom was going through it, and when I had a m/c in December, she told me..My grandma had a m/c betwween my mom & her sister (there are almost 10 years between the two of them) and my mom has had 7 m/c the lost one resulting in a loss of twins. My aunt also never had any children, due to recurrent loss. So my mom’s side, not so great. My dad’s side, my grandma was told if she didn’t want to have stairstep children (after my dad) she better get on birth control. So uber-fertility there. So I don’t know. Im glad I can share how I feel with my mom, I just wish I didn’t have to.

  6. loribeth Says:

    Good question. My family is pretty fertile, for the most part — lots of oopses & “shotgun” marriages on both sides. ; ) At the same time, though, there are a surprising number of childless singles &/or couples on my mother’s side of the family. (Where’s the happy medium?? lol) While I can easily think of a whole bunch of my mother’s cousins’ kids around my age who were pregnant at their weddings, I can also think of at least as many who don’t have kids (some married, some not). I don’t know everyone’s stories, or whether there were fertility issues. That side is a pretty strong-minded, independent lot, so I wouldn’t be surprised if some were childless by choice.

    I did go for lunch one time with two cousins (one 7 years older than me, one a few years younger), & the issue of fertility came up. The older cousin had two kids, but said she had been diagnosed with PCOS & had struggled to get pregnant both times (although she hadn’t done any ARTs). The younger one said she hadn’t used birth control in seven years of marriage, had never been pregnant but was content to let things ride. So there may be issues that I’m not aware of.

    At any rate, most of my childless cousins have busy, fulfilling lives (to look at them, anyway) — travel a lot, & dote on their nieces & nephews. That gives me some comfort.

  7. ^WiseGuy^ Says:

    Has your own experience with infertility and/or loss made you reconsider your family tree?

    I think you and I are similar in one aspect – excessive thinking. Only thing, you are more articulate.

    Great topic, this! I became a part of TT because it gave me solid issues to contemplate. That I have become something as an Intelligentsia, is just a fringe benefit, which I had no clue of or hint of in the beginning.

    My experience with sub-fertility has made me go mentally over fertility issues in my family (both sides) and of hubby’s as well. For a long time I have known that my mother lost a baby before I was conceived. It is only recently that I came to know that in fact, there was another that she lost before me. However, the second pregnancy ended because of wrong medication (she was not aware of the pregnancy when she consumed some medicines). But I have a lonely place on the platform that reads – ‘Fraternity of Barren Babes’, as far as my family is concerned.

    On my mother’s side all the married cousins have children, barring a couple that has intentionally chosen to not have any children. On my paternal side, all my cousins who are married also have children. So, we kind of stand out!

    Now, what I know is that my paternal and maternal grandmothers have multiple pregnancy losses. Sometime, the infants have passed away after a live birth. The reason is poor vaccinations, lack of medical facilities and diagnostic skills at that point of time in past. Also, since contraception was not readily available, there were frequent pregnancies, and the woman’s body did not get enough chances to recover from previous childbirth.

    There are no instances of infertility in close blood relations at all – neither on my side, nor my hubby’s! One of my hubby’s distant cousin is childless after almost nine years of marriage, but I am not sure if I can take the liberty of classifying infertility as their problem.

  8. fattykins Says:

    I have often thought about this…not so much in my own family, because it seems everyone in my family seems to be able to pop the kids out like crazy, but when I look around at others. When I see a family with kids spread out in strange intervals, I wonder if it was by choice or IF? Actually I do wonder about my own family. My brother has been married for a few years now and still has no kids. He and his wife are busy people so maybe that’s why, but I can’t help but wonder if they are suffering from IF as well.

  9. Nicole Says:

    Yes…this whole journey has made me wonder about our family history. My parents did not have trouble with my sister or me, but my aunt had one son and struggled for another 10 years before adopting. My great aunt never had children, although not sure if she just didn’t want any (which I doubt) or they just couldn’t (my guess). Both aunts are blood relatives.

    My DH’s parents were married for 10 years before he came along. Two years later his sister was born. I know my MIL has said she had some ovulation issues and took clomid, but that’s as far as the conversation has ever gone. I think it is strange that prior to her trying clomid they never once were pregnant (that we know of).

    I think that even if we don’t know whether these connections are related to our IF, it makes sense that they are. Especially the diminished ovarian reserve with me and having two female relatives with issues as well. We’ll see if my sister or my one female cousin ever have any issues.

    What a good thoughtful Thursday!

  10. Danielle Says:

    Both sides of my parent’s families are/were very fertile. My younger sister and I were the only two that have had any fertility problems. Although, I do know that my mom had a miscarriage and if I heard correctly, a still born. The miscarriage was with my dad and I’m unsure of the timing and the still born was with her ex-husband. She never talked about either much. We did have a few conversations about miscarriages when I had mine, though. It’s times like these when I really wish she were still around, because I would just love to pick her brain about all this. I would just love to k now what she thinks and how she feels. Great thoughtful Thursday, as always!

  11. Heather Says:

    Yes. I believe there is a family tree component to my infertility issues. My mom had me at 17 and my brother at 23 (that was a choice to have us spaced apart). They never wanted any more children, because my brother cured my parents of that idea, LOL. My mother’s sister on the other hand, did what I did and waited until her late 20s to start trying to have children and had all the issues I did (endometriosis, miscarriages, etc.). My dad’s mom also had 4 miscarriages and 2 children and we have no idea why. This was back in the 1940/50s and that stuff just wasn’t researched back then.

    Now having a daughter who’s 8 years old, it has made me think of what am I going to tell her when she gets older. I plan to be honest. I think this runs in the family. However, I don’t want her to make any rash decisions to run and try to have children early in life to try to circumvent it. I will advise her to go to college, find the right person (guy/girl – I don’t discriminate), have a career and then think about building a family. But be aware for certain signs of issues and be armed with the genetic facts of our family and know when it’s time to see the doctor for help.

  12. s.e. Says:

    Growing up, it was always common knowledge that my maternal grandmother struggled, miscarried and only had my mom. She always talked about how fortunate she was to be able to become a mother. My mother and at least one of my sisters get pregnant multiple times after two weeks of trying so they are extremely fertile. I have often wondered about my oldest sister though. She has two biological children but has been very quiet about her TTC years. She did adopt her third and always encourages me now to “just adopt”. Very frusterating, especially when she is so quiet about her history.

    Your post though raised an interesting concept of past generations. I am intrigued about those relatives in other centuries that may have walked in my shoes. You bring up great points of how there emotions may have compared. Very thoughtful!

  13. Sue Says:

    Hey, I posted.
    You can see it here:

    http://fertility-tales.blogspot.com/2009/02/family-fertilty.html

    Thanks so much
    S xxxx


  14. Wow, what a thought provoking post. Very apt for TT’s! I must say, I’ve never really considered a family tree, especially because I’m the dreaded black sheep, and family remains a whimsical fantasy to me.

    Somewhat like your mom, my mom’s mind is a mystery to everyone. In one of her coherent moments, she reminded me that I was born about 10-11 months into their marriage (and I doubt that they had ‘premarital sex’ back then – ugh, banish the thought). But then… it took 6 years after me for my sister to come along. She says she never had a miscarriage, but she certainly had PCOS (vague conversations about cysts on ovaries spring to mind, pity I wasn’t paying more attention!). The 6 year gap could have been dad’s absences, no sex, or just didn’t want to try, but who knows? I certainly can’t ask now.

    My grandma (mom’s mom) told me after our first miscarriage that her first pregnancy resulted in a miscarriage, but badda bing, she popped out 5 girls soon after, with a maximum gap of 3 years. My (now dead) grandma (dad’s mom) had 11 children. Obviously no real issues there.

    Certain issues are hereditary…wonder if there is a sane, not in-your-face way to raise the question… hm. hmm.


  15. I wanted to add… is it possible to think of a way to ask your parents? I mean, its ok to talk about it now. Infertility and silence = not healthy.

    Something to do with your father? That’s so damn vague (Kinda like something my mom said when my dad wasn’t accepted into the navy – he never answered me until years later I asked the question straight out!). Sometimes its better to just bite the bullet and ask … although, I wouldn’t say “dad” and “sperm” in the same sentence (in that context). Have a back up plan ready, just in case the conversation goes pear shaped. So, how about them ?

    What if you shake the family tree and a little nugget falls out… something to consider that helps your situation. Have you got anything to lose? I doubt your parents will get too shitty if you ask.

    =)


  16. the how about them was supposed to have [insert team name].


  17. This issue really burns me up, b/c I don’t think families realize how important it is to let their descendants know about their medical history.

    This isn’t your dark secret that’s yours to keep and not talk about in my opin. If you have a medical issue that might affect your children’s or grandchildren’s chances of having children, then you should TELL THEM EVERYTHING. I don’t understand why anyone thinks it’s okay to withhold this kind of information. It costs a lot of money and time to test for all of the stuff that might be leading to infertility.

    Imagine what would happen if we could all walk into our first fertility appointment with both of our parents’ and grandparents’ medical records. In many cases, that would tell the doctor exactly where to look.

    That all said, my husband and I both come from a family or rabbits, which has led to some rather unhelpful advice like, “maybe if you ate more vegetables…”

    I have exactly one aunt that couldn’t have children for some vague reason that I’m not allowed to ask about — hence my first point.

    However, I didn’t have to ask her about it, since our diagnosis is pretty straight-forward and contained to us. It isn’t inherited and it probably won’t affect our future children. However, if either of them ever have any fertility issues, here’s me promising to tell them EVERYTHING. I’ll even make them a copy of our fertility records if that will help.

  18. Leslie Laine Says:

    I LOVE THOUGHTFUL THURSDAYS!! I saw your post earlier today and waited until I got home from work to read it so I could really absorb it.

    Yes, I’ve given thought to this and have come up with nothing but blanks. My mom and dad tried for me for about 14 months, and then got pregnant. After that, less one miscarriage, my mom got pregnant easily two times afterward..basically whenever she wanted. On my dad’s side, no known issues there either. Lots of twins, but as far as I know, no fertility treatments.

    It’s an interesting question because I’ve often wondered why this is happening to us, particularly since we have no diagnosis.

    It makes me look at things differently, though, and I think it’s forced some members of my family (particularly my aunts whom I’m close to) look at their fertility with more appreciation.

    Thanks for another thought-provoker.


  19. This is something I have thought about a lot! My fibromyalgia is genetically pre-disposed from my Dad’s side. I know if I have a girl, she has an increased suseptibility. After my second miscarriage, I discovered that both my grandmothers both had two losses before having three healthy children. DH’s mom is the same.

    My mother never had any losses. Does it skip generations? I’m not sure, but there’s a distinct pattern unfolding.

    Something I started looking into after the last loss was if there was a connection between my losses and my fibro. There’s so little info out there about infertility and loss and fibro. I wish there was. I wish there was something I could point to to solidfy my hunch.

    If I have any girls, it will be so important for me to let them know about the family history. I don’t want them to get to the point of wanting to have children only to be blind sided by loss.

    Thanks for another great topic!

  20. WiseGuy Says:

    I missed some relevant detail…

    I have revealed that my mother had in fact two losses before I was born(became aware of second recently). She was married in Feb 1976. I was born in December 1977 (whole nine months completed). Atleast this much is obvious that she did not have trouble getting knocked up. When I was around 18 months, my father contracted tubercular meningitis from one of his patients. There was wrong diagnosis, and my father went into coma. He recovered.

    My parents were not using contraception and were mentally prepared to believe that I would be their only biological offspring.

    My brother (5 years younger to me) is a miracle baby. My parents were not aware that my father’s fertility was ‘restored’ to normal!

  21. Bunny Says:

    i’ve definitely thought about this. i am the oldest of three, all of my aunts and uncles have children (my cousins) and my cousins have kids, too. my parents both have siblings that are close in age, as well. i was looking for some clues, some sense of fraternity, but my search has yielded no results. my sister and i are three years apart and i would imagine that she will start trying to conceive in a year or two and wonder if she’ll face similar struggles to mine, or if it will be easy street for her?

    great question!

  22. Daega99 Says:

    I only found out that I was a clomid baby when I was referred to the RE last year. Then, after I was born they assumed they’d have be on drugs again to concieve a second child and decided to wait for 4 years. My brother arrived 19 months later. They never asked why they had trouble having me. Both are from large families but the gaps between kids was often due to travel or something similar. On my DHs side, his aunt had a few miscarriages but other than that, there are no indications of infertility. This has been fascinating!

    ICLE #34

  23. Cara Says:

    I, too, am an only who BEGGED for a sibling. Never happened, but I don’t think it was infertility related. I should ask since you bring it up.

    You know I’m not in the infertility club – but I am amazed at all the loss in my generational past that noone ever talked about.

  24. princessoftides Says:

    I’ve definitely wondered about this. I have infertility on both sides of the family – my mom’s sister tried for years and years, then was about to adopt and (yes, I know, ugh) ended up with two boys of her own. My dad’s niece had to use clomid way back in the 70’s, and one of the resulting twins is now 3 years into trying with no luck.

    I’m an only too, but unlike some of you I heard *too much* about why as a kid – my dad told me a lot of stuff he shouldn’t have and one of the things he said was that my mom wasn’t sure she could handle a baby, nor that she could love someone else’s baby. So they went really far down the adoption road but backed out at the last minute.

  25. Emmy Says:

    My Dh and I both have aunts/uncles who never had kids. We never investigated why. Dh has azoospermia (zero count) and we are in the process of finding out why. No news back on the genetic tests yet though.

  26. Mo Says:

    No. Not until now when I read your post had I ever reconsidered my family tree through the lens of infertility. Fascinating. Now that I think about it there are definitely “clues”! This is a lovely post. Thank you so much for sharing!

    Mo
    http://www.lifeandloveinthepetridish.com

  27. Jess Says:

    Those would be some great questions to have answered. As to my own family, there’s no reason to believe there is any infertility on my mom’s side (although she did have 1 miscarriage). On DH’s side it took his parents 7 years to have his brother (sperm issues…our dx is azoospermia), but then the 2nd and 3rd came every 2 years. DH’s cousin and his wife have male-fertility issues as well, but not azoo.

    I remember before we were married and TTC I kept googling to see if MFI was hereditary…never did find anything, but now I would have to say yes.

    ICLW

  28. Haley Says:

    IF has made us consider our family trees…On my side we have every woman being ridiculously fertile…to the point that my mom was on birth control when she had me, and my aunt had her tubes tied and still managed to get pregnant. These stories are pointed out any time I bring up our situation, that it can’t possibly be me because of how fertile our family is. My husband, like you, is an only child. His dad refuses to go into much detail as to why, and his mom died young from cancer so our answers are limited to what his father chooses to tell us. It’s a frustrating place to be, and I feel your pain.

    Happy ICLW week!

  29. bellaandherfella Says:

    You know, this post got me thinking. I’m an only child becasue my parents got divorces, but I know my uncle and his wife had a hard time getting pregnant, and my other uncle only has one child. I never really thought about it becasue my maternal grandma has three kids, but maybe infertility does run in my family. Interesting! Thanks for making me think and good luck to you on this sucky journey!

    ICLW


  30. [Here from ILCW]

    My mom’s side is definitely subfertile. It took her five years and a mc to have me, my grandmother had two with a five year gap, and her mother had two with a nine year gap.

    Going into my ttc process, I knew it would be harder, but I figured that if I did everything ‘right’ I could somehow beat the curse. No, not so much.

    Ironically, even though my partner carried our daughter, I’m still carrying out the family tradition of 5+ year gaps between children. Dammit.

    Very thought provoking post. I’ll look forward to reading more!

  31. Eve Says:

    ICLW sent me here!

    My mother’s family is teeming with infertility, unfortunately. It’s amazing I was born at all! My maternal GM had five kids, but definitely ‘woman’ issues and a hysterectomy in her 40s. It took my mom over 12 years of TTC to have 3 kids (and she start at 19). She had a complicated hysterectomy (including her ovaries removed) a few years ago due to severe adhesions (which I assume was endo). My mom’s sis, the only other female had 2 kids despite been a very devoted Catholic….my mom said that she went into menopause in her 40s. Both of her girls have been unable to conceive at all. My only other female cousin on that side of the family had to have IVF procedures for her kids. My sister was the only fertile one, having 2 kids with ease.

    I’m sorry you haven’t been able to connect more with you mom about IF…my mom discusses how she felt about it so many years ago…and it was an painful then as now (except probably worse because you didn’t talk about it or get good treatment).

  32. Jendeis Says:

    Here from ICLW. What an interesting post. I actually have thought of this in both of our family histories. My family doesn’t have any IF in it; whereas my husband’s family has both primary and secondary IF. I guess IF can be genetic.

  33. Brenna Says:

    We are the sole infertiles amidst a sea of fertiles. My parents had no problem having my sister and I, and only stopped because they got divorced when I was 4 and she was 2. My husband is one of seven kids (and his father one of 10!). My mom had three siblings, as far as I know there were no problems with my grandma having children either. Between my husband and I, we have 22 nieces and nephews. We’re now the only members of our generation in either family who haven’t had children themselves. Apparently he’s the lucky recipient of several genetic bloopers in his family–the only known case of Type 1 diabetes AND bum sperm to boot. Not fair! It is interesting to consider where we each fall within the family context, though.

    I always enjoy your Thoughtful Thursdays!

    ICLW

  34. Jo Says:

    On all sides, I seem to be the only one in my family unable to conceive. It makes me wonder — could I have been secretly adopted? LOL!

  35. sassy Says:

    I don’t get it. My mother didn’t have IF issues, but she certainly hasn’t been any help in understanding what is happening in my own body. After four yeyars of TTC I recently was diagnosed with endometriosis. Her reaction? “Oh, that doesn’t surprise me since your grandmother and aunt both had hysterectomies for that.” I’m like, WTF? Couldn’t you have told me that years ago so at least I could be supplying my doctors with the proper information?

    Sorry for the rant. I guess I just hope that when we finally do make it, and have kiddos, that as infertiles we’ll know how to prepare them for this, or whatever other obstacles they might have to overcome.

  36. Jill Says:

    I’ve often wondered about IF in my family, too. My mom and sister were super fertiles, but my aunt and grandma both had problems. Unfortunately, they were both gone by the time I got my diagnosis.

    Good luck!

    ICLW


  37. it has been awesome to read everyone’s responses. this topic is of endless interest to me as I foray into the hopeful, fascinating and scary world of donor embryos.

    lol@ Jo. hilarious!

  38. princessjo Says:

    Well there are some definite clues in our family tree too. My mum “needed help” to have me: on a hormone level, but was fine after that and had my 2 brothers the 2 consecutive years after me. My grandmother of my father’s side had 2 miscarriages and 7 successful pregnancies.

    My husband’s side was always very small. One or 2 children in each family…SO i think that perhaps that might be somehow linked, but i can’t be for sure

  39. Kristin Says:

    My mom never had any fertility issues…hell, she got pregnant on the pill with my youngest sister. However, my aunt (mom’s sister) had two losses and I wonder about my grandma. My grandma says her kids were spaced 5 years apart on purpose (guess its possible).

    On my dad’s side, there were some issues too. His mom had trouble conceiving her first but then it seemed to regulate itself and my dad’s sis also had a few fertility issues. However, my dad’s brother had 4 kids in rapid succession.

    Who knows.

  40. Mel Says:

    Well, my mother and grandmother are both pretty open and frank and shared their histories with me so there is no wonder, just knowledge. But there are questions I’d love to ask others, but know the questions are only to satiate my own curiosity and not actually help the other person so…I don’t ask them.


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